This is a conversation with Sally Hayden, an Irish journalist and writer. A foreign correspondent, she has reported from Sudan, Ethiopia, Uganda and Rwanda. Her book My Fourth Time, We Drowned, an investigation into the so-called migrant crisis in Europe, was published in 2022.

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Recommended Books:

• A Stricken Field: A Novel by Martha Gellhorn
• What Strange Paradise by Omar El Akkad
• The Volunteer: One Man, an Underground Army, and the Secret Mission to Destroy Auschwitz by Jack Fairweather

Sally Rooney said this about the book: “The most important work of contemporary reporting I have ever read. Every citizen of the European Union has not only a right, but also a responsibility, to learn about the realities described in this book. I hope that Sally Hayden’s work can help to begin a radically new and overdue discussion about Europe’s approach to migration and borders.”