This is a conversation with Jefim Vogel of the Sustainability Research Institute at the University of Leeds, and Julia Steinberger of the Institute of Geography and Sustainability at the University of Lausanne, about a paper they worked on entitled “socio-economic conditions for satisfying human needs at low energy use: An international analysis of social provisioning.” This is episode 91 of The Fire These Times podcast.

Both would like to thank their co-authors who were not part of the interview: Dan O’Neill, William Lamb and Jaya Krishnakumar. Julia is also an author of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) 6th Assessment Report, contributing to the report’s discussion of climate change mitigation pathways.

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Topics Discussed

• How the major environmental and social crises of our time are interlinked, especially energy use
• Meeting basic needs at low energy use
• Leapfrogging fairly
• Disparities between global North and global South
• (Some of) the limits of economic growth
• Citizens’ assemblies and other examples of ways forward
• Living well within limits

Recommended Books:

Jefim’s:

• Less is More: How Degrowth Will Save the World by Jason Hickel
• Requiem for the American Dream: The 10 Principles of Concentration of Wealth & Power by Noam Chomsky
• Daring Greatly: How the Courage to Be Vulnerable Transforms the Way We Live, Love, Parent, and Lead by Brené Brown

Julia’s:

• Overheated: How Capitalism Broke the Planet–And How We Fight Back by Kate Aronoff
• The Future Earth: A Radical Vision for What’s Possible in the Age of Warming by Eric Holthaus
• We Make Our Own History: Marxism and Social Movements in the Twilight of Neoliberalism by Laurence Cox & Alf Gunvald Nilsen

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Music by Tarabeat.